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Ken Covers: What advice would you give to agents who they're plugging along and they haven't had that breakout year yet? Do something different. Stir it up. Stir it up. Whatever that might be. It might be small nuances, big nuances. Some, you know, face your fears.
Welcome to The Justin Landis Show, your real estate podcast about having conversations, building relationships, and creating freedom.
Justin Landis: Today I have a special guest with me, Ken Covers from Engel & Volkers is here. Ken, thanks for being here.
Ken Covers: You're very welcome. I'm thrilled to be here, actually. We had a great transaction recently and it inspired us to get together and to be a guest on your show.
Justin Landis: Yeah, after the closing, you said that you would be willing to do this. I was so excited for it because that was a great transaction. You've built such a great business, a luxury business, and I'm excited for you to share that story today with people. But real estate was actually your second career. This is not what you started out doing. Tell everybody, you retired at 40, and then now you've done this.
Ken Covers: Right. So I moved here from Chicago, never going to work again. And I was bored to tears, had a run in with depression. And I realized, wow, I've got to figure out something to do. And I really couldn't come up with anything. And my realtor said, get out of bed, go to real estate school, you'll be a great realtor. I said, no, thank you, I don't want to be a realtor. But three weeks later, I drove off to real estate school and got my license. And then the real challenge started, because, okay, I was a realtor, every third person in Atlanta has got a real estate license.
Justin Landis: A lot of real estate licenses in Atlanta, yes.
Ken Covers: And I thought, wow, how not special am I? And so I also, if I was going to do this, I was going to really do it well. For me, I needed to gather a lot more information and kind of get good at my craft.
Justin Landis: Because you were an absolute expert in your first career.
Ken Covers: Yes.
Justin Landis: So top of your field. So coming in and not being top of your field doesn't seem too appealing.
Ken Covers: True. I did not want to be in the middle of the menu. I did not want to be selling over here, I'm going to be selling over there. And so I also saw these people and thought, I don't think I'm smarter than they are, and at least I could do that. So really the first three years I was a team member and I hadn't found my voice yet, and I didn't work on my craft, open houses almost every weekend, and I came on too strong, because you know, who wants a brand new realtor? Nobody.
Justin Landis: But we all have to start as brand new realtors, which is the tension, I had to figure out how to not be new, come across as new.
Ken Covers: And I also, you know, real estate has changed, younger people sell homes now. When I first got my license, no one was young when selling homes. So I was the right age at 40 years of age, and I hit the ground running, but I really was patient. And it wasn't until I really met my great mentor, Scott Askew, the head of the luxury home division for his company, and I went, wow, this is a real broker. So I left Harry Norman and went to a small firm, and under his tools and direction, really, I became the Ken Covers as known now.
Justin Landis: Tell everybody a little bit about how you did that, because I think almost all new agents want to find that great mentor, they want to learn, but it's not always easy to do. How did you find Scott, and what was it about those first three years that really enabled you to learn and start to find your own voice?
Ken Covers: I also really wanted it, I realized I did want it, I think that's a key. I was motivated. I've also got great discipline from my mom and dad, and I'm one of five brothers, you know, I'm a scrapper, and you didn't have a pork chop, you didn't get one.
Justin Landis: Yep.
Ken Covers: And I also give credit to my dad and mom, especially my dad, he could talk to anything and make it laugh and giggle, he's a concrete contractor. So as a realtor, I realized my job is really to find solutions. And I'm a long-term thinker, my expectations were not of finances at all, I really needed something to do, and that's really why I went into it. I also realized I had the skill set that my realtor, who said I should be a realtor, realized that I had. I'll tell you right up front, I'm a terrible speller, but I'm great at putting a house together.
Justin Landis: Luckily, spelling is not one of the key criteria for being successful.
Ken Covers: So during those three years, I watched people walk away from their homes because they couldn't visualize how they could live there, the green shade carpeting or the furniture. And I really began to realize that just by making some few changes to a house, advising the seller, it was paying dividends. And what I learned from Scott is trust is your number one component, you've got to be trustworthy. Also Ken thought about giving back, like, what do you mean, I'm going to give back, so I got involved with charities, because you're a public figure, and they'd like to see you giving back. And I got more and more experienced, so tools I can give to younger realtors: you really got to work hard, it's not at all what you think about, it's about, you're going to fall and get on, you know, straight for your knees, get back up. And you get the opportunity in a listing appointment to work hard, so you don't really get the job you're interviewing for, I had to adjust to that as well. I tell young people, go get a great outfit, the moment you come home from your appointment, put it back on the shelf and keep it for the next time, because you have to look good and clean, your car's got to be clean, because a seller is looking at very little information, your car, are you on time, are you not on time, are you prepared. And so young people, which is so exciting to watch, do extremely well nowadays because they're technology savvy and they really understand it more. The ones that take it seriously do really well.
Justin Landis: All right, Ken, you've got a couple key pieces of advice that you love to give to newer real estate agents, tell us a little bit about what you think would really help new agents.
Ken Covers: Real estate is a service business, I think people forget that. Be on time, realtors are notoriously late, especially meeting someone the first time, if you are not early, you're late.
Justin Landis: Now, I know this from working with you, we met at the house quite a few times, you beat me every time. I mean, how early are you getting to houses, you're always there before me.
Ken Covers: Not like eight hours. I mean, but in a house like that, that we work together, it was a large home and one of the best homes in Morningside, it takes 30 minutes to turn the lights on, there's a lot of moving parts, I've got a homeowner that works from home, a powered career, I've got children, I've got cats, gardeners, weather, sun, flowers, oh my gosh. So probably 30 minutes, but I check in many hours earlier to make sure, because sometimes people forget, and your minutes that you have, because people buy homes in soundbites of time, you've got to be ready, it's got to be on. And so there's also expectations that come from buyers, everyone's looking for their dream home. So my role, I see it as really to be a facilitator, open up those doors, be warm, show people around without talking the air off because you will lose the husbands for sure. And once I show them around and set them free to freestyle, ironically, I don't know if I shared this with you, one of the best showings of my career was that showing.
Justin Landis: Well, I appreciate you saying that. I think I told you this, I came back here to the office and my business partner, Jared, I was like, man, I wish I had recorded that showing, I was like, I could put on an absolute masterclass for how to show a house. I wish that I had that so that I could teach newer and younger agents how to show a home, because it really was the perfect amount of information, the perfect amount of facts versus stories, but then you also gave us our space so that we could fall in love with the house on our own.
Ken Covers: Yeah, so important. So you also, being a seasoned realtor, you also set yourself up for a win, you showed up on time as well. You know, oftentimes buyers are in such a, you have like, oh my god, give me five minutes, yeah, they were ready to just learn about the house, and again, you cannot talk the ear off because you will lose them. And at that point I knew the flow of the house, and the stars aligned, and it felt great from a listing agent standpoint.
Justin Landis: Yep, it felt great on the other side too. So be early, be prepared, also you always talk about how people dress, tell us about that.
Ken Covers: You know, oftentimes I'll see agents show up with flip-flops. I mean, this is actually like a noble profession, you get out what you put, you get back what you put out. And I once was told by a neighbor, he said, Ken, when I saw you on the neighbor's roof with alligator loafers on, I knew you were the realtor for us. I had to climb up there, I guess I had an alligator skin loafer on. But you've got to find solutions, you've got to put out fires, you've got to be smart, and to set yourself up for a win, be early. Again, I'm not there eight hours early, but I have checked in. So the homeowner's ideal of sale mode and real-world sale mode are two different things, lights have got to be on. I also call it Newton's law for real estate, what can will go wrong right in front of you, so if you're prepared, you can kind of react to those things better. I think it was 2010, I set a goal for the year to wear a tie every day. Now I sold a lot of houses in 2010, but a decent amount were like a bank and property in Forest Park, an auto garage in East Atlanta, but I was like, hey, I want to look the part, and I'm coming to work every day, even in the 90 degree heat, I got my tie on, because I'm dressing for, I think they used to say dress for the job you want, not the one you have. But I do think there is something to just like, hey, I'm working today, and this is my profession, and I'm bringing my best, that does impact your day-to-day.
Justin Landis: It does, big time.
Ken Covers: Plus you never know who you're going to run into. Do I go to the grocery store looking like a slob? I don't. Do I dress up? No. But your credibility is the number one component, I think any kind of client is looking forward to any business, especially real estate.
Justin Landis: Well, that's a great transition actually, of seeing people, because you've built your business very intentionally in a neighborhood. I mean, you have become an absolute Morningside expert, and a lot of agents work all over the place and they don't have a filter for what they're doing or a plan. You've had a plan and you've executed it. Share with people a little bit about how that's come to be.
Ken Covers: So when I first got my license, I lived in Ansley Park, and I would go up against the number one agent there, and they thanked me, but not this time yet. So I kept doing that, so I took that business model to Morningside. Also, I'm here from Chicago, I didn't know how to find anywhere else, and when I would be called a different neighborhood, I don't know that neighborhood, so master one neighborhood. And it's one thing to plot for it and work hard, nothing to have it happen. I also got into the neighborhood organizations and gave back, and it worked. I also, it sounds silly, but I do a big event at my house for Halloween, I do a candy shoot from the roof, to really be able to give back to the kids and to see the parents, it's my best marketing tool all year long. Last year, a thousand dollars worth of candy went down the candy chute.
Justin Landis: I love it, man.
Ken Covers: And so when you have the kids singing your phrases, and just being there, you know, do I pick up garbage when no one's looking? I do. I've stopped at intersections and got out of the car and picked up litter, like, oh my god, it's our neighborhood, I don't want bad things to happen, I want a reflection of our neighborhood to always be good.
Justin Landis: Yep. So obviously doing a great job for your clients and having a reputation that you're good at the job is important, but what else would you say are the couple most important things that you think you've done, other than do a great job with buyers and sellers, to become known as the Morningside expert?
Ken Covers: So I don't like the term old school because I'm not old, but some old school practices, like be present, I always tell the young agents, stop looking down, you're missing so much, look up. You've got to be proactive and really bring who you are, because you're your best tool, whatever makes you, bring that. And you're going to have your strengths, you're going to have your weaknesses, identify what those are and get some support on the ones you're not strong on. Be patient, and be nice to people even when you don't want to, because there's people I don't care for at all, but I'll never let it show, because you can't like everybody, you're not required to like everybody. At the same time, when I'm being interviewed now for a listing appointment, I'm also interviewing them, because every so often you come across a couple of people that you're not connecting with. As I tell sellers, I'm going to wash, I'm going to wipe noodles from your sink and make your bed, we've got to like each other, it's a very intimate relationship at times, and so I've got your back.
Justin Landis: Yep.
Ken Covers: And if I'm not feeling that from them, I've learned to trust my instincts, every time I override them, it bites me in the back.
Justin Landis: I think that is some great advice right there, trust your instincts, you don't have to work with everybody, everybody is not the right fit to work together, which is why there are agents with a lot of different styles, and one style might be right for another. On the patience piece though, how many years have you been in Morningside?
Ken Covers: 24 years in my home.
Justin Landis: And you're having your best year ever this year, a breakout year.
Ken Covers: Yes, I am.
Justin Landis: So probably if you're listening, you're like, how could you have a breakout year 24 years in the business? But you're having a breakout year 24 years into living in Morningside. Tell us about that.
Ken Covers: So it's, again, given the opportunity. I was a little bit frustrated, I never got the big ones in the past. Last year, the first one happened, and it led to another, and another, and another, and another, and even more. I think preparation and planning, and I think everything kind of has come together, the advice I'm giving people and how it's being received, and being patient. I also, you reach a point where you hear it earlier, you don't like everyone, can't like you, and you can't like everybody, and it's okay.
Justin Landis: Yeah.
Ken Covers: And not get bummed over it, it's okay, have a great day, nice to meet you, goodbye.
Justin Landis: And so what advice would you give to agents who are plugging along and they haven't had that breakout year yet? What advice would you say based on your experience with it?
Ken Covers: Do something different. Just stir it up. Stir it up. Whatever that might be, it might be small nuances, big nuances, some, you know, face your fears. I mean, what people don't really realize, I'm one of the shyest people on the planet.
Justin Landis: I would have never guessed that.
Ken Covers: I had to go to someone to help me become non-shy and get comfortable with my skin and my voice. I'm one of, again, five boys, I learned to be quite a good Catholic boy because I was missing out on a lot, because I was just too shy to even participate. So I also tell people I am a late bloomer, I absolutely am. The first 30 years, I didn't really do much, I just watched. And when I go back home, I'm like, oh my god, Ken, how did all that happen? Because I was the brother that was not going to be able to turn out in their world, but I always had a master plan, I was just slow to act.
Justin Landis: Well, congratulations on the breakout year. Before we wrap up, you work primarily now in the luxury space, as agents are aspiring to do it, what do you think has helped you do that? And what advice would you give to somebody who's like, hey, I want to work in luxury one day, but right now that's not what I'm doing?
Ken Covers: Really be realistic with yourself, what is your motivation and goal? People have bigger housing, bigger checks, yes, but there is a whole lot more work involved in being a listing agent for a luxury home. You've got to have lots of people behind you, the garden's got to look good, the house has got to look good and clean, the amount of details you've got to take into account and manage is huge. You don't use a lockbox.
Justin Landis: You don't use a lockbox, another scary thing for people.
Ken Covers: It always strikes my funny bone that you work so hard to get the opportunity and then you put a lockbox on the front door and you're never there, how can I get feedback when I'm not there? And what happens in the real world when you have a lockbox? The door opens up and people scatter like mice, and no one knows more than the listing agent. I love when the listing agent's there, show us around. Again, buyers buy homes in some bites of time, you have limited time, it's almost like a professional ice skater, your outfit's got to look good, the ice has got to be great, the news has got to be good, you only have those few minutes, be ready and prepared for those.
Justin Landis: Yep. I think I mentioned this to you, but I think this is great for people listening to hear. I showed the house that my clients ended up buying with Ken, we had another showing after that, and that agent wasn't personally there, someone at their brokerage came, and that person knew nothing about the house, didn't know anything about the house, no more than we did from reading the listing description. And honestly, that was probably hurtful for the house as opposed to being helpful, like we would have been better off touring ourselves with the lockbox instead of being frustrated. So I do think that's a lesson for agents, when you get that opportunity, if you get that first luxury listing, remember this and how different it is to have that eight minutes of well-prepared professional showing versus not being prepared or someone's not there. It makes a night and day difference, versus the agent dripping sweat from her forehead compared to my greeting, which is, welcome to your new home.
Ken Covers: As you remember.
Justin Landis: I do remember, I will never forget it.
Ken Covers: You might have sweat coming off your forehead sometimes, because you keep something in your car that if you use it long enough it will make you sweat, this is a secret weapon of yours that I want you to tell everybody.
Ken Covers: You know, it sounds really crazy, but when the young realtors ask me what should I do, I think go to the home store and buy a leaf blower, there's so much stuff that falls from these trees, and you want to clear the front door, the path, you can't get to the back but get to the front, clear it up. And I know it sounds crazy, but they have electric ones now that take no time or energy. And it just sounds crazy, but I would never leave home without it, again, you've got fuzzies, you've got pollen, you've got leaves, it's just endless, and you want to create that dream home experience for people. And that first impression, it's actually backed by science. They surveyed people that took a college class all semester, seven minutes into the first lecture, they rated the professor the same as they did at the end of the entire class. In a TED Talk, 15 seconds in, they rate it the same at the end as the whole 15 minutes. People make a first impression, and it's the same for buying a house, that first impression of their view and then their first impression when you tour them in the house, those first couple minutes are huge, and you're optimizing those for your clients.
Justin Landis: Yeah, like case in point, the house that we co-op'd, people don't know, I watered their flowers for them every three days for eight months, because otherwise they were never going to look fresh, and there's nothing worse than walking through the front door and it just looks dead. So they were watered on point, and those details make a huge difference. All right, so for everybody listening who wants to be a luxury real estate agent, you just got the inside scoop from Ken that you need to be watering flowers, bring your leaf blower. I'm joking about this stuff, but I think the takeaway is the details matter, being prepared matters. Ken is prepared, Ken is into the details, and he's having a breakout year at this point in his career. Ken, I really appreciate you sharing.
Ken Covers: Absolutely. Awesome. It's been great to have you.
Justin Landis: Absolutely. All right, everybody, make sure that you like or subscribe so that you don't miss a single episode, and I will see you again next week.
